The Goal of Postmos

Our group is a grassroots group.  It has been put together by people who volunteer to the idea that people who have left Mormonism need a place to meet others who have left.  The secondary goal is that not many people are aware of groups like this, and our goal is to be very public so that people who need the support can find people in similar situations.  After those of us have covered from our initial leaving, many of us stick around to help others through the process and because we like the other people who we have met.  I don't know the future of this group, but it has been extremely rewarding to me to have been part of it.  It has been enjoyable to see the changes in people's lives, who would not have had any other place to turn to, who have often found other life friends.  Our group is not without its flaws, but considering that it's all volunteer, considering that it's only people who are trying their best, those flaws are insignificant.  I am grateful for all the friends that I've made as a result of it.

Provo Pride!

If you haven't heard, Provo is having it's first Pride festival.  Check it out here. The idea hatched just a few months ago, with the committee putting in many hours of work each week to make the thing a success.  The community has been quite supportive of their group.  We will, of course, be there, as the Postmos group has helped Provo Pride in whatever ways we could.  The event is on September 21st, from 10am to 8pm.  It corresponds with the BYU-Utah Rivalry game.  That was completely done on purpose, to get as many people out there as possible.  The Provo Pride committee has done a good job in getting information out to the presses and to the community, so that many people are very enthused about this event.  I'm excited as well.  We wish them all the success that we can!

Corresponding with Provo Pride, we also plan on having a lecturer by someone who went through Evergreen the week of the event.  Evergreen was (is?) the LDS church's gay rehabilitation program.  To keep the tone as positive and welcoming as possible, we're currently trying to find a second speaker who is still LDS or is considered a success story (no promises there).  For this event, we will likely offer three lectures, one day, one evening at UVU, and one at the U of U.  More information to come on this soon!

Potential speaker at Postmos: Hans Mattsson

One round of applause to Hans Mattsson for what he recently did.  That takes a lot of bravery.

So my last post was about the exmormon rumor mill.  I made that in response to hearing about Hans Mattsson and his future New York Times article from Grant Palmer nearly a month ago.  I'm pleased to see that the New York Times artcle was finally published. I then realized that my post was stupid since it could screw him over, and deleted any references to him from my post, or twitter, etc.  Still, that got me to contact Hans a month ago, and get him to say he might be willing to speak to us.

My goal is to get him out here during the week of the Exmormon Foundation Conference.  Preferably that Sunday night, October 20th.  This means that we would need to pay for his flight out, hotel and other accommodations,  and a speaking fee, so nearly $2000.  To donate to that, do so here:  http://www.postmos.org/donate.html.  I'd work in close conjunction with the other major exmormon players to make sure this was a smashing success.  My philosophy has been to never charge people, because I want Mormons to be able to show up to something like this who wouldn't otherwise.  In fact, this might be an event where I would advertise it plenty of places as not being associated with us.  (Like we did with the "Help!  My Loved One is Apostatizing!")

As far as other speakers, we did buy Brian Dunning (aka Skeptoid) a plane ticket last April.  Unfortunately, a week after we bought the ticket, he pleaded guilty to fraud.  At that point, we couldn't get a refund for the ticket. 

Mr. Deity is willing to come speak with us.  On a Thursday in a couple weeks, we'll have a skype meeting with him, where anyone can ask him questions directly.  In order to fly him out, that will also require a speaking fee from him, as well as accommodations.  I'd like to do that, but my first priority is Hans Mattsson at the moment.

As far as donations go, I'm more than happy to show anyone the accounts in person if they want to follow how the money is spent.  I have no concerns with that.  I usually end up spending my own money to make things happen, and I'm often fine with that.  This, however, is far enough outside of my price range that I wouldn't be able to cover the costs without having to save up for quite a while.

The Exmormon Rumor Mill

Since I spend enough time with plenty of exmormons, I hear all sorts of funky things.  I'm passing things along that I found on the internet, after hearing about these stories.  Please note that I'm not claiming any of this is true (and that I just like speculating, which gives me a good probability that I could be wrong), but it is certainly interesting:

Julio E Davila:  Davila was in the second quorum of seventies.  That's pretty high up in the LDS church.  Rumor is that he had an affair with a secretary and lives in Mexico city with her.  Rumor also is that he doesn't believe in the LDS church.  If that's true, he would be the highest mormon authority, that's known to not believe.


Terryl Givens:  A devout Mormon professor in Virginia.  He apparently knows all of the mormon history problems, yet says that he chooses to believe anyway.  He's been going around Britain giving fireside talks about church history problems, and is going to do the same in Provo this July (2013).  It seems that the church acknowledges 10 major problems with the church, and is going to roll out a 3-year plan of Church approved history books to deal with these (according to David Twede at Mormonthink).

The unknown seventy who doesn't believe:  

Speculation is rampant among exmormon boards about which seventy met with Grant Palmer, which he gets a lot of flak for.  I'm not sure why I linked to the FAIR blog... they have silly reasoning as usual, rationalizing that it has to be Carlos Amado, Claudio Costa, or John Dickson, and saying that that's impossible!  FAIR's reasoning was that the GA had to have been a GA since 1995 in order to have intimate contact with the twelve apostles of the church.

Now, I'm certain that there's more than a few seventies who don't believe.  But I present to you my theory.  Now, since Grant has never actually told me any details regarding this seventy other than what was said on the Mormonthink blog...  (*cough* ...actually, I thought it was Marlin K Jensen that Grant was meeting with ... I really don't think Marlin believes... *cough*  I asked Grant, "What do you think of Marlin Jensen?"  Based on Grant's response, that wasn't the GA he had been meeting with..)  Anyways, since I don't have any more information than anyone else, I am free to speculate and post my speculation publicly.  According to Grant, this particular GA doesn't plan on coming out, figuring the church will take care of itself.

Narrowing down the seventy:

Now, the people on Mormon Dialogue forums had two guesses: Lynn Robbins and Craig Zwick.  The guess here is based on separating GA's by who is in Utah (or North America), who is in the first quorum (since Grant said specifically "First Quorum" and not "Presidency"), and since they have been in the seventy the longest, 16.2 and 18.2 years, respectively.  Based on the familiarity with the apostles and the stages they go through, we can get rid of anyone who isn't in Utah, who has served under 10 years, leaving us with:  Elders Walker, Golden, Snow, Robbins, and Zwick (in choronological order).  We can remove Walker and Golden, considering they were in Asia and Africa most of the past decade, ensuring they would have less contact with the twelve.  Snow can also be removed, since this June 2013 Ensign article by him is anti-internet and anti-learning.   Leaving us with, Robbins, and Zwick.

Zwick is part of the correlation and missionary department.  His construction company has also built many church buildings.  He also is apparently a Republican (although Robbins donated the same amount), whose son helped out on the Romney campaigns.  (Whoa!  That's a huge TIE to the LDS church!)  I don't think it's Zwick.  Someone who didn't believe in the church couldn't be part of the correlation and missionary department.  Someone who had huge financial ties to the church, where coming out as a non-believer, wouldn't have suggested that he would even come out, much less risk meeting with Grant because it could influence his construction company, his son's political job, and their financial future.

By the process of elimination, I present to you Lynn G. Robbins, who I suspect to be the apostate seventy who is meeting with Grant Palmer.  Keep in mind, that this is all just a rumor (that I'm starting,) that has no basis in anything, other than the things that I've linked to on the internet.

Lynn G. Robbins:  Lynn has a son who is openly gay.  He currently has no role identified on the LDS church web site, giving him free time to just hang in Utah. His money is less tied to the church, although still tied with the Franklin Covey group.  He talked about general Christian principles and hypocrisy in his last talk, where he ended with a generic testimony ending.  He's been in the first quorum since 2000, second quorum since 1997, being in a position over the United States areas.. and considering the South American boom in the nineties where he was a mission president, would have had plenty of contact with those in the twelve who were stationed down there.


Whoever the apostate seventy is, it's a shame that he won't openly come out as non-believing.  The world needs more heroes who speak up when they see something wrong;  we're all in this together.

2nd Annual Mass Resignation Event from the LDS Church

Date:  June 29, 2013. 

Time:  7:00 pm – open to the public.

Location:  Ensign Peak Trailhead

In June 2012, over a hundred people showed up to support resignation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (also known as the Mormon or LDS church).  This year, they are doing it again. Former and current members of the LDS church will be marching on Ensign Peak at 7pm on June 29, 2013, in a mass resignation event from the LDS church.

This event means a lot to the people who are involved.  Resigning from the church is a milestone for some, showing that they no longer want to be associated with the LDS church or its practices.  Many people never resign who no longer believe.  Those who do resign do it to make a statement, either to the church, themselves, or their families.  For some, that statement is simply to stop the church from contacting them to return.  For others, that statement is for themselves, marking that they have moved beyond church culture and church beliefs.  And still, for others, that statement is about disagreement with church history or practices, such as the Evergreen rehabilitation program, the polygamous nature of both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and changing church doctrines.

For many who resign, Mormonism has been a culture and way of life.  Leaving the church can be a traumatic experience for some, as those people adjust to a world “outside the church”.  As an example, people who leave the LDS church may not experience their first coffee, tea, or alcoholic drink until they have left the church, which could be in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s.  Many people who stop believing in the church feel that they have to learn to live a new life. 

Members can resign from the LDS church by sending an email to msr-confrec@ldschurch.org with their full name, date of birth, and membership number.  Other information such as baptism date and their ward or branch can also be supplied.  A letter can also be sent to Member Records, 50 E North Temple, Room 1372, SLC UT 84150-5310. 

Salt Lake Pride Festival!

Honestly, I couldn't have expected pride to go any better.

Sure, security started to surround one of our guys.  Like, lots of security.  We confronted them about it, and apparently they thought he was someone else.  The crowds were very receptive to us.  It was a blast.  Next year we are planning on getting a vehicle, with music going and a trailer behind it, either for a float or so people can dance!

In case you haven't heard, some of us are helping out in planning a Provo Pride Festival for this September.  Check it out!

Keepin' it ZEN

Going through life as an ExMormon, now Atheist, there are a lot of obstacles that pass by, especially when it comes to things like an old friend who is still currently active in the church approaches you for the first time after the transformation to unbelief. It can seem frustrating at some times, especially after many misconceptions. All I have to say is to Keep It ZEN, meaning to have much patience and kindness, no matter how difficult the situation. If things go out of hand with the other person, I find it important to excuse yourself and kindly leave the conversation.

As a proclaimed Atheist, I encounter many misconceptions, that and sometimes angry people, just because I don't believe anymore and have a different point of view for things. Many misconceptions I hear as an ExMormon Atheist are "You're only angry at God, because...", "Such and such things of your prayers weren't answered because you probably where living in sin", "God didn't answer your prayers when you expected them, so you decided to become a baby about it by pretending to disbelief" and of course the one that only happens for a little while when they say "Oh, you're probably just going through a phase", but that one stops a couple of months or so after you haven't returned and they realize it's not a phase after all. Again, these are many misconceptions, mainly created through assumption and conclusions. Many times I have to make myself clear, explain that I'm not angry at God, I never was, plus I can't be angry at something I don't believe to exist. Being angry at God to me only makes as much sense to be angry at Spongebob for living in a Pineapple, which wouldn't make any sense. Explain that unanswered prayers probably had nothing to do with living in sin, I did all I could to live righteously, I don't see how a loving God like the one proclaimed by the LDS church would abandon one of his children just for simply not being perfect (Even he LDS church teaches that everybody is imperfect. They believe that Christ came to pay for our sins for not being perfect), what kind of God would do that? Now people that say that "God didn't answer my prayers when I expected them" trying to make the point that God answers prayers at his own time... well those people don't even know a single thing about me and why I left the church. When I was LDS, I believed the whole thing of God answering prayers at his own time. What they don't know about me is that I felt that God did answer my prayers, I believed that when he answered me, it was usually through the Holy Ghost and/or signs that I saw that seemed so conviencing to me that they must have been some kind of sign for my faithfulness and thought came from God, I actually got to the point many times that I was 100% sure of it without a doubt that they were from God. The thing is, all those things pretty much all just went down the drain and non of it was true after all. And the whole phase thing, as I already explained, isn't a phase at all when it continues to last without any turning points and knowing that I could never return for many many reasons. That doesn't sound like a phase to me.

Anyways, to my conclusion, after all these misconceptions as well as others not mentioned, even the most frustrating ones, I find it important to just be patient and to Keep It ZEN (I think that shall be my new slogan, lol.) In the past I've only come to realize that if you argue back and continue arguing, you'll only help create more frustration and within yourself as well, which only leads to angry people and NOBODY getting their point across to the other person. So I'll just say it one last time, Keep It ZEN :)